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borislvinА вот интересное сообщение, которое, кажется, прошло как бы сбоку, незаметно. В газете, например, не появилось, существует только в ленте АП.
При этом - очень серьезно. Если о связях Атты с Ладеном, тем более с талибами, пока судить невозможно, то связь с иракской разведкой очевидна и наглядна. Причем связь не случайная, не абы какая - специальная поездка в Прагу, то есть все выглядит организованно, целенаправленно.
Кстати, как "доказательство" поездки Атты в Афганистан приводился факт "утери" им паспорта - дескать, хотел скрыть свой визит. Но сам этот факт ничего не говорит о том, куда же все-таки ездил Атта. Почему, собственно, в Афганистан? А как насчет, скажем, Ирака?
Возможная версия может выглядеть так. Испытал исламский ревайвел, загорелся и т.д. Решил отомстить за Багдад. Придумал идею. На какой-то стадии решил связаться с иракскими службами, в том числе для совета и ради средств. Скорее всего, они должны были бы предложить ему НЕ поддерживать никаких видимых связей с Ираком.
Теперь - вопрос. Встречался ли Ладен или его люди с Аттой - мы не знаем. Что иракский сотрудник встречался - факт. Его имя известно. Почему никто не требует допросить этого дипломата? Выдачи этого дипломата? Всех других иракских дипломатов? Всего иракского правительства? Далеко от фонаря, искать неудобно?
Линк
Czech Confirms Iraqi-Atta Meeting
By Danica Kirka
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, Oct. 11, 2001; 9:50 a.m. EDT
PRAGUE, Czech Republic –– An Iraqi diplomat held several clandestine meetings in the Czech Republic with one of the suspected hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, a senior government official said Thursday.
The Iraqi was being watched by Czech security officials because they feared he might be involved in plotting an attack on Radio Free Europe's offices, which are headquartered in this central European city, the official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
"They met, and more than one time," the official said. The official said Czech authorities do not know what the suspected hijacker discussed with the diplomat, who since has been expelled.
"That is the $64,000 question," the official said.
The meetings with suspected hijacker Mohamed Atta and the Iraqi diplomat, Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir Al-Ani, aroused no particular interest until the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
"Atta was not part of the picture" when Al-Ani was being monitored, the official said.
Czech officials have acknowledged that Atta landed at Prague's Ruzyne international airport in June 2000 and stayed for less than 24 hours before boarding a Czech airlines plane for Newark, New Jersey. Authorities have not revealed what Atta did during his short stay here.
Besides the June meeting, it was not immediately clear when the three – and possibly four – meetings took place between Atta and Al-Ani.
The official acknowledged it was possible that Al-Ani also met with another of the suspected hijackers in the Czech Republic, but did not offer details.
The Iraqi diplomat was expelled in April after what Czech authorities described at the time as "activities that are incompatible with his status as a diplomat."
Another government official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said Czech officials were warned that the diplomat could be using the country as a base for espionage activities, but refused to elaborate on how the warning came about.
"The suspicion is that he and other people had shown an undue interest in the (Radio Free Europe) installation," the senior official said.
The Iraqi government has long complained about Radio Free Europe's broadcasts to Iraq. When the broadcasts began in 1998, the Baghdad government called the programing an "act of aggression" and vowed to halt all trade with the Czech Republic.
При этом - очень серьезно. Если о связях Атты с Ладеном, тем более с талибами, пока судить невозможно, то связь с иракской разведкой очевидна и наглядна. Причем связь не случайная, не абы какая - специальная поездка в Прагу, то есть все выглядит организованно, целенаправленно.
Кстати, как "доказательство" поездки Атты в Афганистан приводился факт "утери" им паспорта - дескать, хотел скрыть свой визит. Но сам этот факт ничего не говорит о том, куда же все-таки ездил Атта. Почему, собственно, в Афганистан? А как насчет, скажем, Ирака?
Возможная версия может выглядеть так. Испытал исламский ревайвел, загорелся и т.д. Решил отомстить за Багдад. Придумал идею. На какой-то стадии решил связаться с иракскими службами, в том числе для совета и ради средств. Скорее всего, они должны были бы предложить ему НЕ поддерживать никаких видимых связей с Ираком.
Теперь - вопрос. Встречался ли Ладен или его люди с Аттой - мы не знаем. Что иракский сотрудник встречался - факт. Его имя известно. Почему никто не требует допросить этого дипломата? Выдачи этого дипломата? Всех других иракских дипломатов? Всего иракского правительства? Далеко от фонаря, искать неудобно?
Линк
Czech Confirms Iraqi-Atta Meeting
By Danica Kirka
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, Oct. 11, 2001; 9:50 a.m. EDT
PRAGUE, Czech Republic –– An Iraqi diplomat held several clandestine meetings in the Czech Republic with one of the suspected hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, a senior government official said Thursday.
The Iraqi was being watched by Czech security officials because they feared he might be involved in plotting an attack on Radio Free Europe's offices, which are headquartered in this central European city, the official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
"They met, and more than one time," the official said. The official said Czech authorities do not know what the suspected hijacker discussed with the diplomat, who since has been expelled.
"That is the $64,000 question," the official said.
The meetings with suspected hijacker Mohamed Atta and the Iraqi diplomat, Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir Al-Ani, aroused no particular interest until the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
"Atta was not part of the picture" when Al-Ani was being monitored, the official said.
Czech officials have acknowledged that Atta landed at Prague's Ruzyne international airport in June 2000 and stayed for less than 24 hours before boarding a Czech airlines plane for Newark, New Jersey. Authorities have not revealed what Atta did during his short stay here.
Besides the June meeting, it was not immediately clear when the three – and possibly four – meetings took place between Atta and Al-Ani.
The official acknowledged it was possible that Al-Ani also met with another of the suspected hijackers in the Czech Republic, but did not offer details.
The Iraqi diplomat was expelled in April after what Czech authorities described at the time as "activities that are incompatible with his status as a diplomat."
Another government official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said Czech officials were warned that the diplomat could be using the country as a base for espionage activities, but refused to elaborate on how the warning came about.
"The suspicion is that he and other people had shown an undue interest in the (Radio Free Europe) installation," the senior official said.
The Iraqi government has long complained about Radio Free Europe's broadcasts to Iraq. When the broadcasts began in 1998, the Baghdad government called the programing an "act of aggression" and vowed to halt all trade with the Czech Republic.
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Date: 2001-10-12 09:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-10-14 02:01 am (UTC)Çäåñü ó Âàñ íåóâÿçî÷êà. Ïîòîìó ÷òî Áàãäàä ÿâëÿåòñÿ åñòåñòâåííûì öåíòðîì è àäðåñîì íå äëÿ "ðåâàéâåëà", à äëÿ àðàáñêîãî èððåäåíòèçìà, ñòîëü ëþáåçíîãî Âàøåìó ñåðäöó; ê òîìó æå ñî âðåìåí Íàñåðà àðàáñêèé èððåäåíòèçì íå âîçáóæäàë ñòðàñòåé ñòîëü ñèëüíûõ.
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Date: 2001-10-14 09:09 am (UTC)Èíà÷å ãîâîðÿ, àðàá-èñëàìèñò, ñêîðåå âñåãî (õîòÿ è íå îáÿçàòåëüíî), ïðèéäåò ê èäåå àðàáñêîé íàöèè (îáùíîñòè) êàê çàùèòíèöû èñëàìà, èäåå ñâÿòîñòè àðàáñêîé çåìëè êàê âîïëîùåíèÿ èñëàìà è ò.ä. È, êàê âàì õîðîøî èçâåñòíî, íàîáîðîò.
 ïðèíöèå çäåñü åñòü àíàëîãèÿ, íàïðèìåð, ñî ñâÿçüþ îáîñòðåííîãî ïðàâîñëàâíîãî è ðóññêîãî íàöèîíàëèñòè÷åñêîãî ñîçíàíèÿ. Åñëè ðóññêèé ÷åëîâåê èñïûòûâàåò ïðàâîñëàâíûé ðåâàéâåë, ñ âûñîêîé äîëåé âåðîÿòíîñòè îí èñïûòàåò è íàöèîíàëüíûé ðåâàéâåë - è, îïÿòü-òàêè, íàîáîðîò. Òî æå, âèäèìî, ìîæíî íàéòè è ó èóäàèñòîâ.
Ýòî, íàâåðíî, õàðàêòåðíî äëÿ òåõ ñëó÷àåâ, êîãäà, ñ îäíîé ñòîðîíû, èìååò ìåñòî âûñîêàÿ ñòåïåíü ïðèâÿçêè ðåëèãèîçíîé èäåíòèôèêàöèè ê èäåíòèôèêàöèè íàöèîíàëüíîé (ðóññêèé=ïðàâîñëàâíûé, åâðåé=èóäàèñò, àðàá=ìóñóëüìàíèí), à ñàìà ðåëèãèîçíàÿ äîêòðèíà íå ïðîøëà åùå ïîëíîñòüþ öèêë àêêîìîäàöèè ê ñåêóëÿðíîìó îáùåñòâó, êîãäà â ýòîé äîêòðèíå èìååò ìåñòî ïðîòèâîñòîÿíèå "ðåôîðìèçìà" è "ôóíäàìåíòàëèçìà" (÷òî, îïÿòü-òàêè, õàðàêòåðíî è äëÿ èñëàìà, è äëÿ ïðàâîñëàâèÿ, è äëÿ èóäàèçìà).
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Date: 2001-10-14 09:42 am (UTC)Íàîáîðîò - åòî âðÿä ëè. Ïðî èíäèâèäóàëüíûå ïóòè ïðîñâåòëåíèÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî íå ìîãó, à îáû÷íûå àðàáñêèå ðåæèìû - åãèïåòñêèé, ñèðèéñêèé, èðàêñêèé è ò.ä. - íèêàêîãî äðåéôà ê èñëàìèçìó íå äåìîíñòðèðóþò è äàæå íàîáîðîò.
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Date: 2001-10-14 01:57 pm (UTC)Èäåÿ â òîì, ÷òî ñèðèéñêîñòü, åãèïåòñêîñòü è ò.ä. ïðîÿâëÿþòñÿ ÷àùå âñåãî â êîíòåêñòå âíóòðèàðàáñêèõ äåë, êîãäà äåëÿò âíóòðèàðàáñêîå äîáðî è âëèÿíèå. Ïðè êîíòàêòàõ ñ âíåøíèì ìèðîì, îñîáåííî êîãäà âíóòðèàðàáñêèå êîíôëèêòû â íèõ íå çàäåéñòâîâàíû, èñëàìñêèé õàðàêòåð àðàáñêîé ìîäåëè ÷àñòî âûñòóïàåò íà ïåðâûé ïëàí.
Ìåæäó ïðî÷èì, êîíêðåòíûå àðàáñêèå ïðàâèòåëè ïðåêðàñíî îñîçíàþò ýòó äèëåììó è î÷åíü ÷àñòî ïûòàþòñÿ èçîáðàçèòü ñåáÿ - â ñèòóàöèè êîíôëèêòîâ ñ íå-àðàáñêèì ìèðîì - êàê "çàùèòíèêîâ àðàáñêîé íàöèè" è ò.ä.
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Date: 2001-10-14 02:17 pm (UTC)ß òîæå. Õîòÿ ñåêóëÿðíûé èððåäåíòèçì íàñåðîâñêîãî îáðàçöà îêîí÷èëñÿ ïðåâåëèêîé êîíôóçèåé, ïîñò-íàñåðîâñêèå ðåæèìû ñîõðàíèëè èçðÿäíóþ äîëþ ðèòîðèêè îá "àðàáñêîì åäèíñòâå"; çà îòñóòñòâèåì æå îáùåñòâåííîãî ìíåíèÿ è ïîëèòè÷åñêîé æèçíè ðåøèòåëüíî íåâîçìîæíî ïîíÿòü, íàñêîëüêî ýòà ðèòîðèêà ñîõðàíèëà ñâîþ ïðèâëåêàòåëüíîñòü. Èçâåñòíî ÷òî î÷åðåäíàÿ ïîïûòêà èððåäåíòû - ïðèñîåäèíåíèå Êóâåéòà ê Èðàêó - íå âûçâàëî îñîáîé ïîääåðæêè ñðåäè ðóêîâîäèòåëåé äðóãèõ ñòðàí. Àðàáñêàÿ óëèöà, íàïðîòèâ, ïðèâåòñòâîâàëà ñàääàìîâñêèå ïîäâèãè - îäíàêî â êàêîé ñòåïåíè ïðî-ñàääàìîâñêèå äåìîíñòðàöèè áûëè ñâÿçàíû ñ èððåäåíòèçìîì, ñêàçàòü òðóäíî.Ðàçóìååòñÿ, ìîæíî ñêàçàòü ÷òî íàñåðîâñêàÿ ïðîãðàììà áûëà ñåêóëÿðèçàöèåé ðåëèãèîçíîé èäåè "èñëàìñêîé íàöèè", îäíàêî ñ òîé æå ñòåïåíüþ äîñòîâåðíîñòè ìîæíî ðàññóæäàòü î ÑÑÑÐ êàê ñåêóëÿðèçàöèè èäåè Òðåòüåãî Ðèìà. Äîñòîâåðíîñòü ýòèõ ðàññóæäåíèé íàñòîëüêî íèçêà, ÷òî, ïîæàëóé, ëó÷øå áû òàêèì îáðàçîì è âîâñå íå ðàññóæäàòü.
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Date: 2001-10-14 03:41 pm (UTC)Âåäü àðàáñêàÿ óëèöà - íå îäíè òîëüêî òåìíûå ëàâî÷íèêè è ãðóç÷èêè. Âû æå ñàìè ïèñàëè, êàê âñå "âîñòî÷íûå" ïðåäðàññóäêè êîðåíÿòñÿ â çàïàäíûõ òåîðèÿõ. Òàê è çäåñü - èìåþòñÿ èíòåëëåêòóàëû, àðòèêóëèðóþùèå àðàáñêóþ óëèöó. È èìåííî èíòåëëåêòóàëû, èñïûòûâàþùèå èñëàìñêèé ðåâàéâåë, îáîñòðåííåå âñåãî ãëÿäÿò íà âñÿêèå ïîëèòè÷åñêèå ñèòóàöèè è êîíôðîíòàöèè.